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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Mary Masako Suzuki Aoki 
1979 
Cassette 1, Side 2 
 
 
Mary Aoki  00:10 
But deep down inside of this, who's teaching this class?  
 
Jill G. Smith  00:17 
This is Sarah Jacobus on campus. She's quite new, and-- 
 
Mary Aoki  00:21 
And it is in in what?  
 
Jill G. Smith  00:22 
In History of Women in the Northwest. 
 
Mary Aoki  00:23 
Oh, and what-- is there-- does that fall into any special category? 
 
Jill G. Smith  00:27 
Women's studies. 
 
Mary Aoki  00:28 
Yeah, that's right, there was just no such thing as sugar or any of the so-called luxuries of life, I 
guess. Before-- during-- towards the end of the war, our salt was rationed too, and finally, we 
were getting this very dark, brownish colored salt. They were large crystals or rock salt. And 
even that was not available towards the end of the war. And so, I remember we used to carry our 
sweet potatoes and walk, you know, hike to the ocean, which is several miles away. And we 
would boil the sweet potatoes with ocean water to get that salt, and then we would  take the 
cooked sweet potatoes back home, in our rucksack. [?Because?] this experience-- 
 
Jill G. Smith  00:28 
And then you ate sweet potatoes, or the salt was somehow distilled through the sweet potato?  
 
Mary Aoki  00:31 
Women's studies, oh. 
 
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Jill G. Smith  00:32 
In terms of establishing the validity of the lives of women who live here, and can find out a great 
background [inaudible]. All the diverse experiences. You're telling me about your experience 
with sewing a cap, developing in your first case of lice. 
 
Mary Aoki  00:51 
Because someone, apparently, who tried it on, had lice, and it was during the war years. And I 
guess it was not so unusual to catch lice, but I had heard about it, but I'd never really known what 
it was like. And I was sewing, and then some little black bug fell down, you know, crawling very 
slow. So I thought, Oh, you know. And so I just-- sort of just got rid of it, I guess. And then, I 
saw it again. And then I saw another bug. So I ran to my neighbor's house, because what's this 
[inaudible]. This lady that was at the house was not there for some reason. And then she really 
looked at my hair, you know, and then she pulled off-- she said See? And this is these little 
transparent, little things, you know. And that's what it was. And I cried, and I cried. [?Was so 
funny?] she said, if we had kerosene or something, that we could get rid of it immediately. But 
since we can't, you'll just have to-- this is more towards the end of the war, because it was when 
the B-29 were bombing, you know, Japan.  
 
Jill G. Smith  02:04 
There was no kerosene for the rationing?  
 
Mary Aoki  02:53 
Yeah. That's right. It was-- it seemed like one can really live without sugar, but you cannot live 
without salt. And we were always tired. And towards the end of the war, we always went to bed 
with our clothes on, because we didn't know when we had to jump out of bed. And so towards 
the end, we even had our shoes on, you know, so to speak. Just a pretty desperate-- and my 
uncle, who was a journalist, told me that he felt the war was-- the end was in sight, that he felt 
that it was going to end pretty soon. But he said it may be difficult for an American, for 
Americans. But I was a minor, and I was saved from, you know, we had the secret police come 
to the house, and they were very arrogant. They-- my mother gave me a recording of Stephen 
Foster's songs, and it was sung by Richard Crooks, the tenor. I think that was his name. Oh, this 
is American [inaudible] and all that stuff was okay, but the Americans were no good. And so I 
remember, and-- I'm almost ashamed, there was a black covered [?Teenage 78?] okay? I Dream 
of Jeanie, you know,  With the Light Brown Hair, all those songs were in there. And of course, 
on the cover was this little-- sweet little black boy eating a watermelon. If there ever was a 
stereotype of something, it was that. I'm sort of glad that, I guess I don't have that anymore. But 
anyway, the secret police came and took all that. That was the time that Ruth was suffering from 
spinal caries, and the guy said that you must be doing this to avoid going to work for the-- for the 
cause of the country or whatever, because in school, a lot of our time is spent in factories helping 
out. 
 
Jill G. Smith  04:59 
Oh, really.  
 
Mary Aoki  05:00 
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Making the little parts. And I just could not go to a factory. So I helped at the local Japanese-- 
the local Buddhist temple would take care-- They had, what are they called here, for working 
mothers, like a daycare nursery, and I was always helping out my nursery, and I didn't go to the 
factories, that's the job that I do. Then to-- first, they said, well, then would you like to help with 
the spring planting and everything? And I got into the rice paddy, and the leeches would get on 
me, and I didn't know how to take them off and, and I would not cry, but almost, you know, I 
just couldn't stand it. And then this farmer came to me, and he would just grab a lump of dirt, and 
he would just go, swoop, and it would come right off. But I didn't know the technique by which 
to get these-- 
 
Jill G. Smith  05:52 
-- and wipe down your leg.  
 
Mary Aoki  05:55 
They finally said that, you know, you were not meant for this. So they said that you'd probably 
be better off helping at church.  
 
Jill G. Smith  06:04 
Were you what age?  
 
Mary Aoki  06:05 
Yeah, so, and to this day, I get letters from some of those kids that I took care of and, you know, 
it's really very nice. They're all grown people naturally, 
 
Jill G. Smith  06:18 
This, your being in school and having to work. Did that start immediately as the war began? Or 
was that something that developed as the economy needed?  
 
Mary Aoki  06:25 
Yes, it developed not immediately. Things, when I was in high school, when the war started, 
some of the things that they made you do were to-- was to bear with whatever was going on. So 
they made us unheated rooms, and they'd make us walk barefoot or like I remember, on cold 
days, there's no heat and it took several minutes to massage your hands before you could write 
your-- write it, you know, take your exam. Things like that were difficult. Also we would go and 
catch grasshoppers, which helped the farmer. But it was also source of protein that [inaudible]. 
This was, again, a Mr. Suzuki who was a biologist at school. And all these were captured, and 
they had no food for a week, okay? And then I guess, they expelled all whatever, you know, 
whatever food, and then they were roasted, I think. But they were then they were sort of-- they're 
kind of like teriyaki, teriyaki grasshoppers. They're supposed to taste like, sort of like dried 
shrimp or very crispy. And they said that, since our protein level was very low, each day at 
lunchtime, the monitors would pass out two of these. But, you know, the wings and the legs were 
removed. It's just the body, okay? But I always pretended that I was eating it, and I didn't. I didn't 
eat it, and I-- in a sense, I'm sorry that I missed that experience, because everyone said it just 
tasted very, very crisp, and like, you know, dried, some little dried thing. But I don't know what 
it was. I just could not do it, and so I pretended I ate it and I always threw it away, and I got 
away with it. But in Japan, the schools were different in the sense, to this day. I'm not, still not 
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used to the American high school or, you know, like I feel that I'm doing my children a 
disservice, in a sense, because they talk about what classes they should take, et cetera, et cetera. 
In Japan, most of the time, you had no choice. You took everything. We just, we just had 
everything. We had US-- not US, but Japanese history. Also had world history. We had Chinese 
history, which was singled out other from, apart from World History. And then we had geology. 
We had all those subjects, all those-- maybe not in depth, but at least a smattering of whatever. 
We had botany, and we had biology, and we had all those classes we had to take. I remember in 
my fourth grade in high school, we had to observe a childbirth at a hospital, and we had to 
observe a Supreme Court case, a high court case, you know. And then we also witnessed a 
[?knock?] off and this was for everyone, okay? Then also, when we were in third grade in high 
school, the school physician came and gave us instructions on the physiology of birth, you know, 
and how a woman should take care of ourselves, et cetera, this type of thing. And in conjunction 
with that, it led to going to watch a childbirth. 
 
Jill G. Smith  10:15 
My goodness.  
 
Mary Aoki  10:17 
So those are some of the requirements of graduating from high school, it was a very interesting 
experience.  
 
Jill G. Smith  10:25 
And the all girls class was doing that-- 
 
Mary Aoki  10:28 
-- All girls class, that's right. And we had, oh, there were classes, the moon class, and the cloud 
class, and the flower class, ski, and the snow class, we each have these characters. And like the 
fourth year that there were four classes. So in each class, I'd say it had about 30 kids. And when I 
then went on to college, I majored in classical Japanese literature because I could read very well 
by then, I was very much interested. And my mother thought that I would take home economics 
or something. And I told her I wasn't interested. And then my dad said, Well, but she said, it 
would be nice for you to learn how to cook and do all these things. My dad said, Well, as long as 
you're literate, you can read a cookbook, so you should do what you want to. But he asked me 
how I was going to take English lit, and so I said, Why should I take English lit? I want to take 
Japanese literature. So I did take class for Japanese literature. During the war years, a lot of the 
romantic things were taken out, and more things with a military tone or something in that. The 
curriculum will slightly change, but you see, in Japan, everything is under the-- you do what the 
Ministry of Education tells you to do. So Japan is an interesting country, because you find 
everyone is literate. And I often wonder of all the books that I read when I was growing up in 
Japan, everything in translation, of course. But we read Camus either right after the war, The 
Plague, you know, The Stranger, all these things. And we read so much. We read some 
[inaudible], we read Victor Hugo, we read [inaudible], and we read all these people. Yet I 
wondered why, when I came back here, no one's read any of these things. And I tried to analyze 
the situation, and the only thing I can come to is that there's so many diversions here. You know, 
let's go bowling, or let's go dance, or let's go see a movie, or everything is so readily accessible. 
And I think that living in the country, as I did, or, for that matter, people in the cities too-- things 
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during the war years, especially, nothing was very accessible, and it was a tremendous joy to 
read.  
 
Jill G. Smith  13:25 
Was it a very singular activity, or would you do it with friends? Would you read aloud to each 
other at all? 
 
Mary Aoki  13:29 
No, no, it was a singular activity. But we always talked about books that we liked and we read. 
And, but in 1940, just before the war started, when I was back here, and my dad, at that time, just 
did not believe the war has been as far as, he thought that was going to be settled politically. he 
said No, the-- Japan, they've got too much smarts. They're not stupid and they're not that 
audacious. They're too smart to go to war, he did not believe in it. And so, in '40, I went back to 
Japan again. But I remember when I came back here, my mother was telling my dad, Mary is 
reading the Red Books. Those were some of these, really-- I guess, I don't know what she 
thought was so risque about some of these novels, you know, but she thought maybe it was for 
older kids or older adults or something. So she must have been-- she wanted me to major in 
home economics, she wanted some of these things, she thought. So I figured that. But now, I feel 
that she's much more liberated than she was then, at the time she seemed like to follow the mold. 
You know, you should be in Japan. You should learn flower arrangement and the tea ceremony. 
And I didn't like any of those things. I did not like-- 
 
Jill G. Smith  13:38 
-- When people try to teach them to you? 
 
Mary Aoki  14:56 
Well, I tried to take classes in them, but I didn't like that kind of discipline. I wanted-- I had more 
fun going to concerts, and reading, and going to libraries, or going to movies, or going to 
whatever museums, or go shopping even. 
 
Jill G. Smith  15:19 
Were your friends doing the same thing? Or were they more disciplined? Or just [inaudible]? 
 
Mary Aoki  15:22 
No, they all, they all took, they took French-- oh, well, after the war started, they couldn't, but 
everyone took-- the elit-- it was considered, you know, to be brought up as a good Japanese 
young woman. You took piano lessons. Academy Francaise was everywhere in Japan. You took 
French, you registered with the exclusive [inaudible] French. We took flower arrangement, and 
then you took tea ceremony. And I registered with the Academy Francaise when then the war 
started, so it didn't go on anymore. And I did that, but I didn't have a piano at home, so I didn't 
take piano lessons. But, and I did not-- I started with the tea ceremony, but-- I guess maybe, no, I 
would understand it better, but there were so many things to do that I just didn't have that kind of 
discipline to sit and do the things that were expected of you. and the flower arrangements too. I 
thought they were beautiful, but still I felt, well, I don't-- see, I thought that freeform 
arrangement was very lovely too, you know. So it's just a matter of personality, I think. 
 
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Jill G. Smith  16:36 
Well, were you a bit of a rebel then? Did people?  
 
Jill G. Smith  16:38 
Were any of yours? [Inaudible.] 
 
Mary Aoki  16:38 
No, we always-- it was very interesting, because at the Kariya High School that I went to, they 
never had anyone that graduated in the top three. And here I was, from America, and I went to 
Japan, and I failed to make the top two. My mother said, Well, how come you weren't top one or 
two? I told her, because my sewing was never-- and my art always-- my points dropped. But in 
the first and second grades, I was in the top 10, and in my graduating years, I was in the top 
three. I did well in school. That doesn't mean anything. Then I went on to college, which was-- 
yes, I say, I went to college in Kyoto, it's a city that was not bombed. But I went to all the 
temples, all the gardens, I went to [?Nara?], it was just my joy to do all the things. And I read all 
the things on those subjects that I-- I remember one thing this one author who described the 
difference between Christianity and Buddhism. In sculpture, we felt that all the Kuan Yin, the 
common one, you know, the Kuan Yin, or the figure of the Buddha, or any of those, always had 
a lip upturned. And it was a smile, whereas the Madonna as beautiful as she was, was tragic, and 
there was a sadness about the thing, and he felt that-- oh, he was trying to describe differences in 
religion. I was very much interested in the differences in religion. So it was those days that I 
learned that Buddhism was nontheistic and all these different things. Very interesting time in my 
life. I think I had good professors. I belonged to poetry group, and we wrote poetry and we 
would send them in, and certain good ones would be accepted and be published in the magazine. 
 
Mary Aoki  19:24 
It was. And another thing too, subconsciously, I think, during the war years, we were denied 
foods, really denied foods. We just didn't have so much. I came back here and I found myself 
very unhappy without a [coal lighter?].  My mother would say, why is it necessary to buy four 
dozen, Mary? Why is it necessary to buy a case of this? Because, I said, I just don't like to run 
out. Why'd you buy six pounds of butter? And I finally had to sit down and tell myself, Now, 
why is this? And I'm sure that's why. Because when I came back in 1947, in April, sailed on this 
refrigeration ship from Yokohama to San Francisco, and I got off the ship, and I saw all these 
eggs in the store, and I just could not believe it. And my first thoughts were, wouldn't it be 
marvelous if I could just take all these eggs and send them back there? Because it was such a 
shock. San Francisco, first of all, when you come into the-- under the Golden Gate Bridge, you 
know, you come in-- and everything looked so white, and clean, and very huge. It was such a 
shock from coming from everything in ash, not in ashes, but in wrecked. You know, most of it 
was in ashes. I had terrible experiences with the bombing, because towards the end, when I was 
visiting my relatives in Tokyo, there was a terrible bombing, and we were away from home, and 
in order to get home, we had to walk over dead bodies at separate [inaudible], and we were being 
very careful. A lot of the bodies were covered by this corrugated tin and things, okay, but I 
missed one by-- and just the whole skin of this person just came right off. Was literally slid off. 
And then we see eyeballs out. The force of the blast makes people's eyeballs pop for someone 
there [inaudible]. And it was just the whole experience was a nightmare in that time. And then 
we lived in a-- my uncle lived in a higher park where it was sort of, it was on the hilly side of 
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Tokyo. And when we finally got back there, there was a man that was crying, and he said that, I 
know that when we were fleeing, you know, I had my children's hands. I was holding them, but 
they weren't there anymore. So he said, Do you think that I valued my life above theirs, because I 
don't understand it. He was trying to reconcile what happened, and he couldn't, and he was in a 
state of shock, and it was just very rare to see a man crying and openly weeping, and trying, 
calling the children's names.  
 
Mary Aoki  22:13 
Yeah, yeah, a waka and haiku is what they were. But-- 
 
Jill G. Smith  22:14 
-- That was a period of great exploring for you?  
 
Jill G. Smith  22:51 
[Inaudible.] What-- you had been away then for seven years for a stretch, I remember you telling 
me you couldn't get word from your parents, is that correct? 
 
Mary Aoki  22:59 
Yeah, it was very interesting, because my parents were in Twin Falls, Idaho, at a camp called 
Minidoka. That was the place in Idaho, okay. And the International Red Cross, allowed them to 
write. And the letters were sent for Geneva. But lo and behold, I met the postmaster after the 
war, and he told me that he had four letters for us, but the government prohibited our delivery 
[inaudible], and he apologized to us. And they were like telegrams. They were not letters. One 
letter said that he was worried about us, but Dad said that, But I know that you are doing your 
best, he said. And again, they couldn't-- they tried to write things that would not offend anyone, 
okay? And he said, Life in the camp is fine, but I cannot stand all these wieners.  
 
Jill G. Smith  23:00 
The food that he was eating? 
 
Mary Aoki  23:00 
Yes, I guess they served a lot of wieners and sauerkraut and not-- it just too much for that. My 
dad said there was so much apple butter, and sauerkraut, and wieners. So they raised a-- in Idaho, 
it's very dry, apparently. And people were amazed that, through diligence, he had a beautiful 
garden, flower-- aesthetic garden, plus a vegetable garden. And they'd say, Oh, Mr. Suzuki, you 
are so good. And you just raise such beautiful flowers. And so then he would, immediately, he'd 
cut flowers and give it to the people that loved them. I know. I guess that was one thing that he 
enjoyed doing. 
 
Jill G. Smith  23:58 
Oh, hot dogs.  
 
Mary Aoki  23:58 
Wieners.  
 
Jill G. Smith  24:48 
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Were you able to get word to them?  
 
Mary Aoki  24:49 
Never.  
 
Jill G. Smith  24:50 
No. Mail wasn't allowed out of the country.  
 
Mary Aoki  24:54 
There's no way. We didn't know that such things existed as the International Red Cross. Never 
even heard of it. Oh, so there was that. 
 
Jill G. Smith  25:03 
And what was the story about the country woman who told you that she could see?  
 
Mary Aoki  25:09 
Oh, yeah, and this is the lady that must have been a psychic, in the sense that we think about 
psychics in this day and age. But back in in '40 and in '41, I mean-- no, back in-- it was, no, 
closest towards the-- it was towards the middle of the war, around '43, 2-3. In those days when 
my grandmother, my step-grandmother, she was, but anyway, she was like a real grandmother to 
me. Went to this little lady. She must have been-- of course, I was a child, so a woman. She may 
have been in her 50s, and I may have thought she was 70, but she looked like an old, very older 
woman. She was a grandmother, taking care of the grandchildren, while her son and daughter-in-
law would go out to, you know, harvest rice or whatever the case was. And I guess everyone 
knew that she could give you certain answers if you go and talk to her. And so she would be 
neutral and my mother-- my grandmother would ask her, she's very worried about her [inaudible] 
daughter, you know, and what they're doing. And so then, she would, she was like, I don't know 
if I could do anything, but you see, I will try to have a conversation. And she'd go to-- out of her 
home and out into this, not an arterial, but it was a street where they had this little hut, which had 
this little Jizo which is a little-- like a little Buddha that was carved out of granite that sat on a 
little shelf. And it us-- this one had a red bib on it, the little soap bib with scallops it, as I recall, 
at his side. And I asked what the bibs were for, and he said, It's because she's a child. And it was-
- a child had died, and so the parents had this little thing, the little Jizo made so that she wouldn't 
wander, but find her way to Nirvana. And there was always fruit, or rice, or some kind of food 
offering always on this little shelf where the Jizo was sitting. Okay, then she would gently bow, 
and then she would take the little Jizo in her hand, and she would hold it close to her breast like 
this. And she'd be starting-- she would mumble something. And then pretty soon, I could see 
cold perspiration all over her face. And then her eyes are just really, was a frightening thing to 
see. Eyeballs completely out of control, you know, kind of like they're going every which way. 
And then, pretty soon she would stop. Then she would take the [inaudible]. Japanese had this 
kind of rain pot. [Inaudible] like this, and she'd say [inaudible]. Then she proceeds to tell her, 
she'd tell my-- told my grandmother that your daughter-- she says, I cannot see, but she says, 
She's confined in a certain area, and as long as you don't go to the edges, it is safe, and that 
everyone is safe. There's something about these barriers that feel-- seem ominous, but I cannot 
tell you what that is, she said. But she said they were confined in an area, you know. So made me 
think of sheep within, you know, something, that type of thing, or fences or something must have 
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been, and it was, they were-- a barbed wire, and they were also, I guess, they had electrical wires 
or something. Then they had-- it's just like a prison. They had guards with guns, yeah, so. But 
she didn't know what it was, but that's-- but she said they were safe. So we realized that they 
were not at home. Isn't this amazing, that this woman who was in the country, yeah, where we 
didn't hear anything in the newspapers about any of the Japanese being evacuated from West 
Coast. We didn't have it. News were censored, and we just-- the Japanese were always winning 
the war. There was a naval man. [?Hidai Ute?] was his name, major or whatever, Commander or 
whatever, Taisa. [Inaudible] Taisa. Taisa must be a commander, because he's in the Navy. Okay? 
He'd come on the six o'clock news always, and he would make this big announcement of the 
progress of the war, the state of the war. And he would say, that's such and such [?goes sunk?], 
such and such was sunk. And we suffered very few casualties, you know, this type of thing. Just 
found it-- then, when the war ended, we found that almost even all the the civilian ships were all 
sunk. They were hardly-- there's hardly anything that was floating left. It was such a shock. It 
was only towards the end of the war, when we had Gremlins and B-29 bombing the countryside, 
and when all the cities were going into ruin, that we realized there was something definitely 
wrong. And when the atomic bomb was dropped, they said a very unusual bomb was dropped, 
and they said that probably there will be no vegetation for years or whatever. And I remember 
the whole city of Hiroshima. I'd been to Hiroshima before, and they said that the whole city, 
there was nothing remaining, and I just could not fathom such a- thing, it was a terrifying 
experience. And later, right after the war, after MacArthur came, and American citizens who 
lived in Japan during the war years had to overcome an act of presumption.  
 
Jill G. Smith  28:41 
That's what the law was called?  
 
Mary Aoki  31:21 
I don't know. It's just the very idea that an American citizen was in a country with whom the 
United States was at war. But it was called overcoming an act of presumption. That's what was 
stated again, and they said the best thing to do to become reinstated, was to go to your nearest 
military, somewhere military and-- CIC, I think, the military intelligence, and report to them, 
because no council was set up yet. And then they said, if you worked for the army or whatever, 
you know, then you could probably become reinstated quicker and be able to go back. So we 
looked for the, what was the name. It was a big General Hospital in Nagoya. And Colonel 
Sullivan, I remember he was the commanding officer. We worked as interpreters. Then, after, we 
were there for-- that was in '45, and in '46, they said that with your language qualifications, we 
would like for you to work at a larger place, in Fukuoka in northern Kyushu. So we got on a 
military train and went down there. We were transferred down there. And when we passed, when 
we were going through Hiroshima, we need to lower all the-- the MPs come and pull all the 
shades down. 
 
Jill G. Smith  33:03 
And this is the American military? 
 
Mary Aoki  33:04 
American military. Okay, and then, but then some people would peek. And when we peeked, I 
just could not believe the devastation. But almost everybody was on their hands and knees 
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praying. It was the most-- it was, not as-- it was just that everybody was so overcome by this. 
Just going by and through the city, such an emotional experience, that everybody was the Lord's 
Prayer, whatever, everybody in some form, or fashion, or meaning were praying. And it was 
[?something?] like that, the whole train, and it wasn't as if you were asked to do it. It was just a 
reaction. But I was, I must say, I was very stunned. Then a few years ago when I went to Japan, 
and I went to Hiroshima, I went to the museum and the people that are still suffering from 
leukemia and all these diseases that keep coming up [inaudible], the whole thing is a very 
terrifying experience. I mean, too bad the bomb never had to be dropped. So be it.  
 
Jill G. Smith  34:23 
Were your loyalties being pulled at that time? Your feelings of being American and being Japan 
[inaudible]. 
 
Mary Aoki  34:29 
I don't-- you know that, when I came back, my dad told me that he was interrogated by the FBI, 
okay, and they asked him that Do you swear allegiance to America? Will you write that Japan is 
your enemy, this type of thing that you swear? He said that I can't do that. He said, It's my 
motherland. He said, How can you expect a person not to love your motherland? And he was hit. 
Slapped down for that, and apparently was written up in some local newspaper that this Japanese 
man was being very arrogant. But my dad said, Do you how would you expect me to lie to you? 
He said, How can I say that I do not love my motherland, you know? And, and he said, When I 
came to America, I wanted to become a citizen, and wanted-- you know, I was willing to do most 
anything. He left Japan to avoid conscription, but when they were going-- they didn't even want 
him for the army or anything to prove, you know, and now you're asking, you've never given me 
citizenship, and here you're telling me where my allegiance lies. And he thought, he said that he 
thought that they were being very hypocritical. He said it's very difficult. And my mother said 
that she wished that he wouldn't do that, but that's who my dad was. He just could not say Yes, I 
pledge allegiance and everything, you know, and well, that's the way I felt. It was sad that 
countries had to be at war and as much-- But the funny thing is, you know, when you're born an 
American, and in Japan, when you hear the Star Spangled Banner, you know you're an American 
because it does something to you, you get goosebumps, or whatever it is, and just surges right 
through you, which is something. So there's no doubt.  
 
Mary Aoki  36:35 
Yeah, that's how I felt. And it was during the war years, it was very interesting, because we did 
have some magazines from America, and we kept some of those, and we would go through the 
pages, and we'd say, Soon as we get home, that's what I'm going to have. It might be chocolate 
cake once it might be a hamburger or something, and it was almost as good as eating it, I guess, 
because we turned these pages, that's what I'm going to have. And right after the war ended, and 
I guess it's when the first-- the occupation forces came in, all the trains, there were no trains 
really with seats left. They were like box cars, you know, where like animals would go into. And 
I was coming home from Nagoya trying to make-- renegotiate somebody was-- we went to the 
military, the CIC. CID, I guess it was called. Civil Intelligence Division, or Central Intelligence 
Division. And then he'd ask me things like, Are you pro or prom? You know, some of those 
words just didn't mean-- I just didn't quite understand what he meant. And they talked about 
liaison, and that was another word-- I had my little dictionary with me, and I looked at the word, 
Page 11 of 12 
 
I couldn't quite understand what a liaison officer was, you know. And on the way home, it was 
very interesting, because Ruth and I got on the box car, and then there were some American GIs, 
and we were going-- and all of a sudden, you know how the train stops and we bumped into-- 
and Ruth bumped into this American GI. And she said, Excuse me. Then he looks stunned, and 
he said, Can you speak English? And she said, Yes, I think, I think so. And then he asked what 
we were doing there. And so we told him, and he says, Oh, you poor dears. I remember his 
words, you know. Then he scrounged into his bag and he had two big Hershey bars, and he said, 
It's too bad I just-- this is all I have, you know. Our eyes just grew like this, you know, just 
couldn't believe it. Okay. And he said, here. And then he said, Where are your parents? So I said, 
they're in Seattle. And we gave them our last address because we didn't know. And then he said, 
I'm going home by Seattle, so I'll be sure and look up your parents and tell them. That was the 
first contact. The first contact my parents had was from this GI.  
 
Jill G. Smith  36:37 
And that's how you were feeling? 
 
Jill G. Smith  36:38 
He did do it.  
 
Mary Aoki  38:58 
Yeah. And then, he said he gave my parents a name of a GI that was stationed in Nagoya, which 
is where we were. And through this GI, we got our first pair of shoes. And my parents sent 
clothes over. And I remember Ruth took the shoes to bed with her. We were sleeping in the 
futons next to each other. And I think she was had, must have had her shoe, and then she must 
have moved around. And I really had a big bruise. 
 
Mary Aoki  39:49 
Yeah, in the middle of the night. But anyway, going back to chocolates, you just could not 
believe. And then he asked her Okazaki Station was, and we were explaining to him, and then I 
remember, because, you know, we hadn't spoken English for so long. It's very new, and it was 
different from an interrogation and being asked questions and answers. You know, he was asking 
us questions about and we didn't know whether English would really come out or not, and it did, 
you know, but we took this, these candy bars home, so then we separated them until we 
[inaudible]. So I remember we had four squares like that, okay? And then Ruth broke hers into 
fours. And then she wrapped each one separately. And so, but I would eat my one square first, 
but then I went back and eat another [inaudible], and then Ruth would just bring it out, 
[inaudible], it was the biggest ceremony ever. But anyway, but this GI really was very, very nice, 
and we got our first shoes through them. And then after, Colonel Sullivan was very, a very warm 
man, and he bought us some clothing through the PX and so. And after we moved to Kyushu, we 
were doing the Japanese-- were doing translations, and we were correcting the translations, and 
then we were editing their work and stuff like that. It was primarily because they were concerned 
with pending strikes, labor strikes, or any kinds of strikes. McArthur was very concerned 
because blind reform plan was going into effect [inaudible]. 
 
Jill G. Smith  39:53 
Oh, she clobbered you with the shoe. 
Page 12 of 12 
 
 
Jill G. Smith  39:58 
Did you pick up a technical economic knowledge as you're doing the interpreting work?  
 
Mary Aoki  42:03 
Yeah, we did, and I did lots of interpreting after that too. After I came back, I interpreted for 
Judge Smith. That's where I first met Charles E. Smith, who was a prosecuting attorney at the 
time. Then he went on to bigger things with Robert Kennedy, but then our paths crossed again 
with, you know, the big Black movement in the '60s. Remember '68, when they were all-- the 
long hot summer type thing, walks. There were some things happening in the central area and 
Yosh became a central area school chairman to try to see if they could do something. And I think 
it's been very successful in many ways, but I've done a lot of high caliber interpreting, like the 
Pacific Rim Mayors Council and something that more was protocol with things like the North 
Pacific Fisheries Commission, where they were. And then many Japanese that would come from 
Japan, like represent even governments or labor unions, like the 200 mile limit, you know, that 
type of thing. So, I've had a chance to travel quite a bit, like a lot of same places like that, and 
I've done lots of private interpreting for people that come to buy dogs, you know, Blue Danes or 
something like that, super wealthy Japanese [laughs]. But after I came back here, I was taking 
some history courses and stuff at Broadway Edison, and at that time I registered at the university. 
I was taking some classes along-- after I finished state courses at Broadway Edison, I took some 
history courses, things that I knew that I missed in Japan, okay? And then they were-- Far 
Eastern Library needed a Japanese librarian, and they said that I didn't have to have a librarian's 
degree as long as I could read, and write, and understand. And so, because we were using a 
different classification system, they were using the Harvard-Yenching system for the Oriental 
board, because it seemed like the Dewey system didn't quite work in very well. So I worked in 
the library for seven years, and had a marvelous experience meeting all those people and doing 
all the things. And then after that, I had the family, and then when my children a little older, Jan 
was the one that asked if I wanted to do some interviewing. That was my first experience, and I 
interviewed him for the Model Cities Program. And I guess that's where I knew, so. 
 
Jill G. Smith  42:20 
Well, why don't we break now and then, if I may, have another chance to talk to you about that 
bit. 
 
Mary Aoki  45:06 
I'm sorry that I just ramble on and on, with-- and reading nothing sort of in-- 
 